Interview med Ihsahn

Ihsahn Ihsahn

For nylig udkom Ihsahns syvende soloalbum, og vi satte ham i stævne til en behagelig samtale om at arbejde uden for sine egne rammer, at være ligeglad med andres forventninger og, selvfølgelig, hvad der ligger bag den klaustrofobiske Ámr. (Scroll down for an English translation)

Til trods for de forskellige udtryk er der lighed mellem Arktis og Ámr, men Ámr forekommer mig som værende en mere dyster og emotionel udgave af det forrige album. Hvordan bygger du videre på din signaturlyd uden at gentage dig selv?

Han klukker lidt og fortæller mig om den konstante udfordring ved at undgå ”muscle memory” og om at finde situationer og inspirationer, som fastholder hans ”entusiasme og glæde ved processen”. Han stopper op et øjeblik, før han fortæller mig, at lighederne mellem Arktis og Ámr, i hans optik, findes mestendels i hans fokus på sangstruktur.

 ”Albummet forud for disse, Das Seelenbrechen, indeholder langt mere ”free form” og improvisatoriske teknikker, og som kontrast lavede jeg Arktis med den udfordring for øje, at jeg ville se, om jeg kunne skrive et album, der basalt set er bygget op efter en pop-/rockformular”.  

En stor del af hans musikalske opvækst falder i netop den kategori, og typisk for en norsk black-metaller er han ikke bange for at tale om sit arbejde.

Alle har en forudindtaget idé om, hvad det er, du ved, den der klassiske pop-/rockstruktur. Det er stadig en udfordring at fylde de der 3½-5 minutter med noget interessant, som stadig passer ind i de udstukne rammer. Men selvfølgelig afviger det indimellem, og det, mener jeg, er med til at skabe ligheder. For mig er den egentlige forandring blot de scenarier, jeg skaber, før jeg overhovedet skriver musikken”.

Hvad Arktis angår, taler han entusiastisk omkring den helt store forskel mellem den forrige og den nyeste udgivelse og peger på de respektive albumcovers som varsel om indholdet. I hans optik er de åbne vidder på Arktis, sammen med de metaforiske tekster og visse auditive gentagelser, det stik modsatte af Ámr.

Det hele foregår indenfor. Jeg lavede en skitse, der viser, at det går for sig i et mørkt rum, så jo… coveret antyder også, at det er indendørs. Det er også grundlaget for mit primære fokus på analoge synthesizers, sammen med guitarerne naturligvis, fordi det skaber en intim og klaustrofobisk lyd”.

 

Din tilgang til det syntetiske aspekt af musikken, er det en hyldest til dengang, keyboardet var en vigtig del af black metallen, eller er det tiltænkt som en moderne, elektronisk fortolkning?

Jeg vil mene, det er begge dele”.

Dette spørgsmål udløser, hvad der viser sig at være den første af mange spadsereture ned ad mindernes boulevard, og han fortæller mig, hvordan soundtracks til film har formet den store kærlighed til det orkestrale aspekt af hans musik. Som vi alle ved, er soundtracks til gyserfilm særdeles dramatiske, og han nævner i flæng både John Carpenter, Halloween-filmene og de, indtil nu, for mig ukendte Tangerine Dream og fortæller mig om, hvordan han forelskede sig i

”… musik, der ikke stemte helt, og gamle synthesizere, der skabte en uhyggelig og intim atmosfære. Strygere og horn skaber stor musik, men på en storladen måde. Med synthesizere, især hvis du benytter de analoge til bassen, forbliver det stort, men knap så overvældende.”

Han stopper sig selv i at, med egne ord, ”køre ud ad en tangent”, når talen faler på gennemgangen af synthesizerens historie, og han ler, da han drager den konklusion, at nok er hans barndoms analoge synth-lyd en stor del af det, men det er trods alt en moderne produktion. Og her tog interviewet en uforudset drejning. At høre en af de mest innovative musikere på denne side af metal fortælle mig, hvor meget han har ladet sig inspirere af hiphop og R’n’B, var overraskende, til trods for det faktum det ikke var en decideret afsløring. Han taler med stor entusiasme om kraften og tyngden i en sub-oktavbas, hvilken rolle den famøse 808 har spillet, og med en kombination af lidenskab og ydmyghed runder han sit svar af med et ”jeg ville se, om jeg kunne implementere disse ting – med mit eget udtryk, naturligvis”.

 

Der er en masse bratte skift og skarpe kanter fordelt ud over albummet som kontrast til de ofte blide musikalske arrangementer. Hvilken effekt håber du, det vil have på lytterens overordnede oplevelse?

Han puster langsomt ud og beskriver, hvordan han håber,

de forskellige elementer forstærker den effekt, albummet har. Rammerne, jeg har udstukket, har et fælles udgangspunkt, så jeg kan holde mine idéer, melodier eller riffs op imod det overordnede mål og se, om det passer”.

Han bliver stille et øjeblik, mens han søger efter ordene til at beskrive, hvordan han udvikler sig fra album til album.

Jeg tror at ved at benytte mig af disse rammer, kan jeg strække mig langt på det enkelte album, uden at glemme stemningerne – men nok mere udvide dem, og det er vel en præference. Jeg kan lide varieret musik. Du har brug for noget roligt, du ved, for at larmen virkelig mærkes, det er ganske enkelt”.

Han påpeger, det er et element, nogle glemmer at tage i betragtning, når de kreerer eller lytter til den her type musik. ”Ekstremmetallens natur er således, at alting skal skrues op på 11 fra start til slut”. Han begræder den manglende variation i musik og forklarer, hvorfor det er vigtigt at have rolige og stille passager til at sætte fokus på det modsatte. Med en næsten undskyldende latter beretter han om, hvordan han har bemærket, at når han spiller noget af sin ”mere stille og rolige musik, har folk altid taget godt imod det, selv på ekstremmetalfestivaler. At kunne levere det blide før det rå, giver den ønskede dynamik. Det er svært at forklare hvorfor; jeg gør det bare”.”.

 

Kan du pege på en ting som den fællesnævner, der forbinder alle dine tidligere soloalbums med det nye, eller er de alle på vej i hver deres retning?

Han tager en dyb vejrtrækning, som har han svaret klar, men sukker i stedet dybt, næsten opgivende. Efter et par forsøg får han endelig sat nålen i rillen og skærer igennem med et

de alle er naturligt sammenhængende”.

Allerede da han udgav The Adversay, vidste han, det ville blive første del i en trilogi, længe inden han overhovedet havde tænkt på at optræde med det live.

I stedet for bare at fortsætte, hvor jeg slap med Emperor, ønskede jeg at starte forfra og skabe min egen musikalske platform”.

Han kaster sig dernæst ud i en beskrivelse af hvert enkelt album, begyndende med en tilbagevenden til sine heavy metal-rødder, og hvordan han basalt set måtte starte fra bunden af. Det andet album bidrog til at finpudse hans udtryk, og det tog ham ikke meget længere end til tredje udgivelse at finde sit ståsted. Det var

langt mere eksperimenterende, du ved. Ekstra guitarer, saxofon og en langt mere konceptuel atmosfære, synes jeg. Jeg følte mig hjemme i det, jeg hørte”.

Angående det fjerde album, Eremita, havde han brug for at afvige fra sin formular og indså nødvendigheden i at ”nulstille samtlige parametre og ikke blive for komfortabel”. Das Seelenbrechen er temmeligt eksperimenterende med en masse ”fri leg”, som han konstaterer var en improvisatorisk omgang, noget han fandt både befriende og skræmmende på én gang.

Som respons på det lavede jeg Arktis, som er meget statisk, melodisk og letgenkendelig. Den var næsten organisk i den forstand, og jeg synes, det er en meget positiv plade”.

Han tøver en smule, mens han leder efter ordene til at beskrive, hvordan han formåede at bygge bro mellem et

arktisk landskab med åbne vidder og et indelukket, mørkt rum. Jeg skrællede alle de højstemte arrangementer væk og fokuserede på en mørk og mere elektronisk sub-drevet atmosfære. Det er egentlig bare en naturlig udvikling, men på samme tid også en respons på den sidste udgivelse”.

 

Hvad er den mest givende del af processen for dig, når det kommer til at lave musik?

Denne gang er der ingen tøven; svaret falder prompte. Han ler hjerteligt og fortæller mig,

det er de få sekunder, hvor højttalerne spiller noget, jeg har lavet. Jeg har ingen idé om, hvordan jeg nåede dertil, men jeg har tænkt mig at tage æren for det alligevel!”

 

Tror du, at din baggrund som medlem af et af de mest indflydelsesrige bands i denne genre har givet dig mere frihed til at eksperimentere med formatet, i modsætning til hvis du ikke havde haft den anciennitet?

”Jeg tror, det har givet mig en masse erfaring, og det gav mig en seriøs tilgang til musikken fra en meget tidlig alder.

Hans stemme får en drømmende kant, imens han ser tilbage på en livslang passion. Siden han var seks år gammel, har han interesseret sig for musik,

men det tog ikke rigtig fart, før jeg var 10-11 år og fik min første elektriske guitar. Jeg begyndte at spille i bands med det samme, og da jeg var 12, havde jeg allerede indspillet min første four-track”.

Jeg nikker i stille sympati med teenage-Vegard, da han beskriver, hvordan han som 13-årig ikke blot kom med i et band med Samoth, men også drenge, der var ældre end ham – hele 16 år gamle.

I mine øjne var de voksne. De havde indspillet en demo i et professionelt studie, så ved at slutte mig til dem måtte jeg løbe ekstra stærkt for at forblive i bandet. Men jeg var vel heldig at finde nogen i den alder, som var langt mere erfarne end jeg, så jeg var nødt til at lægge mig i selen og få det nødvendige fokus”.

Det fokus har han bibeholdt op igennem sin karriere og konkluderer, at hans hårde arbejde fra dag ét har bidraget til at gøre ham til en alsidig musiker.

Jeg tror, det startede med keyboard, så piano og så guitar. Af uransalige årsager endte jeg med at synge, og meget hurtigt blev mit ansvar at skrive musikken og dernæst teksterne. Efter et par år byggede jeg så mit eget studie”.

Han bliver stille et øjeblik, og jeg forhører mig, om det ikke har givet ham en vis disciplin, og han svarer entusiastisk, at det har det helt sikkert.

Vi signede med Candlelight Records, da jeg var 16, så jeg har aldrig haft et rigtigt arbejde. Alle arbejder på, du ved, den lokale tankstation i den alder, men jeg har aldrig prøvet den slags. Jeg har kunnet bruge alle mine vågne timer på min musik, hvilket naturligvis er et kæmpe privilegie”.

 

Tog fans af Emperor godt imod dit soloprojekt, eller skiftede du fansene helt ud?

Dette spørgsmål cementerer min mistanke om, at alle nordmænd er de fødte imitatorer, fordi hans svar byder på en lige-i-øjet gengivelse af dem, der påstår, de ved, hvad black metal skal være og ikke er.

Både ja og nej. Begge dele. Nogle fans sagde: ”Åååh, det her er ikke Emperor, det er ikke black metal.” Det sagde de også om det sidste Emperor-album, som jeg lavede selv, så det må de selv om. Nogle foretrækker den første, andre den anden og ville ikke have det anderledes. Nogle foretrækker AC/DC, andre Radiohead. Nogle kan lide forandring, andre kan ikke”.

Angående hans fortid i Emperor giver han udtryk for, de aldrig forsøgte at passe ind – faktisk tværtimod.

Der var ingen ”scene”, så vi forsøgte aldrig bevidst at blive succesfulde eller indtage et bestemt marked. Det blev mere en konsekvens af, vi var så ensporede. Det er nok grunden til, vi rent faktisk fik succes i første omgang. Fordi vi ikke forsøgte at finde et ståsted på en allerede etableret scene. Vi gjorde bare vores egen ting, og ultimativt gik det hen og blev noget både eksotisk og levedygtigt på sine egne præmisser, det fandt sin egen niche”.

Samtalen tager en nutidig drejning, og han dvæler et øjeblik ved tanken om, at på nær A-ha findes der ikke ret mange norske musikere, der har skabt sig en international karriere.

Så ved at have den arbejdsmoral og en smule held fik det ben at gå på. Jeg vil gerne fastholde det privilegie, det er at kunne gøre sin egen ting og ikke være respektløs over for dem, der lytter til og køber min musik. Hvis de ikke gjorde det, ville jeg ikke sidde her og tale med dig om mit syvende album. Det er jeg meget taknemmelig for”.

Han pauser kort for at samle sine tanker og kommer så med et bud på, hvorfor folk er tiltrukket af hans musik: Han har en formodning om, det er, fordi de vil have noget ”ægte og ærligt”, og at de ikke bare vil have musik, der glider ubesværet ind i deres ører.

De vil have noget kompromisløst og noget mere… egocentrisk musik”.

Han slår en høj latter op, der er blottet for falsk ydmyghed og selvnedgørelse og afslutter således: ”Det er i hvert fald, hvad jeg fortæller mig selv, så jeg kan have det godt med at gøre, hvad jeg gør, uanset”.

 

Black metal antager mange former. Kan du fortælle lidt om dit syn på de do’s and don’ts, der hjalp til at forme genren gennem 25 år?

”Jeg har tit sagt, at ”black metal er en sindstilstand”. For mig er black metal ikke blast beats, synthesizer, guitarer og skrigen. Det er, hvad der fremkalder den der abstrakte følelse inden i. Diamanda Galas kan være nøjagtig lige så black metal og inspirere den følelse, som Bathory kan”.

Pludselig alvorlig lader han mig forstå i ikke indpakkede termer, at han udmærket godt er klar over, der findes folk, der ikke mener, hans nuværende platform kan kaldes black metal.

Jeg er ligeglad, hvad folk kalder det, men den følelse inden i, min kreative kilde, er stadig den samme, som da jeg startede på det her. Hver ny sang og hvert nyt album er endnu et forsøg på at opnå, eller i det mindste nærme mig, grundprincipperne fra forskellige vinkler”.

Et tilbageblik på hans omfattende bagkatalog afslører da også en del tematiske gengangere og sindstilstande.

Det her er, hvad jeg gør. Det er en kompromisløs søgen, en længsel i musikken. Det er, hvad black metal er for mig”.

Skal han tale både om og på vegne af black-scenen, føler han, de mange subgenrer vil ende i en kommercialisering, der uden tvivl vil skabe et ”modepoliti, der skal fortælle dig, hvad der er rigtigt og forkert”. Han slår i bordet, rent retorisk, og forklarer, hvordan han synes,

hele idéen bag filosofien er, at der på ingen måde er rigtigt og forkert. Jeg troede, meningen med det hele var ”Gør som du ønsker, det er det fulde omfang af loven”, du ved. Og sagt på en anden måde: Hvem vil have et black metal-album, hvor dem bag lod sig styre af, hvad publikum forventede?”

Han morer sig lidt ved tanken om, hvilken type black metal-attitude, der ville komme ud af det, og slår endnu en høj latter op ved tanken om paradokset: ”Det er ikke black metal mere”.

Hans stemme får en skarp kant, da han fastslår, at

”hvis du gør, hvad fanden du vil, er det true. Hvis du ikke kan lide det, er det dit problem. Jeg bliver tit spurgt, hvorfor jeg er begyndt at eksperimentere med musikken”.

Han understreger sin pointe ved at hive Ulver ind i ligningen:

Han lavede black metal, og nu laver han elektronisk musik. Men det undrer mig, der ikke er flere af de gamle fra den originale scene, der gør det samme”.

Fascinationen og forundringen er tydelig i hans stemme ved tanken om, hvor få af hans kolleger, der ikke er gået den vej, da

vi var, eller er, en del af den scene. Vi var teenagere, der konstant rykkede ved grænserne for, hvad man kunne tillade sig rent musikalsk, til ekstremerne. Det er sørgeligt, hvis man vender ryggen til den proces som 17-årig”.

Med tanke på hvor mange af dem fra ”dengang”, der stadig er aktive, kan han ikke begribe, hvorfor de forlod idéen om at ”udvikle sig og søge efter de yderste grænser.

Jeg havde forventet, flere af dem ville eksperimentere med musikken, og hvad den udviklede sig til”.
 

 

Black metal er næsten på mode i Danmark disse dage. Men tænker du, at opmærksomheden fra mainstreamen udvander konceptet, eller får black metal endelig den anerkendelse, den fortjener?

Jeg tror, denne tidsalder udvander det. Det er på høje tid, vi får noget nyt og ekstremt. Sex Pistols var ekstremt chokerende i 70’erne, men ikke så meget i 80’erne. I begyndelsen af 90’erne var norsk black metal en ekstrem og chokerende størrelse”.

Han søger lidt efter ordene til at beskrive, hvad der regnes for chokerende nu, og peger i den generelle retning af mainstreamunderholdning. Når hans børn ser Netflix, er de udsat for væsentligt mere sex og vold, end han var på den alder, og han konstaterer leende, at nutidens reklamer havde været bandlyst i hans barndom.

Grænserne for, hvad folk er vant til disse dage, er rykket, så musikken har mistet noget af sin kant. Skal du chokere i dag, skal du komme med noget nyt”.

Vi berører emnet politisk korrekthed i metal, og Ihsahn er ikke i tvivl om, det findes.

På en ganske ucharmerende facon. Jeg taler naturligvis ikke om dem alle sammen. Men på de sociale medier er alle blevet superpersonlige, og det tærer på galskaben og magien. Alle var komplet opslugte af musikken. De var bindegale. Og nu opnår vi ikke længere det niveau af galskab”.

 

Hvordan tror du, fremtiden ser ud for black metal?

Tilsyneladende er dette ikke et nemt spørgsmål at besvare, for der bliver dødstille i den anden ende, men du kan ikke ikke have en mening om musik, du har været med til at forme, og svaret ligger lige foran os.

 ”Jeg tror, black metal som genre efterhånden er mere et fortidslevn. Noget, man har et nostalgisk forhold til”.

 Han bliver stille igen, og jeg får næsten ondt af ham, som han sidder der og sveder i sin rullekrave og forsøger at spå om en fremtid, han selv er med til at skabe. Han konkluderer uden tøven, at ”de unge skal træde til”, noget han håber vil være med til at flytte grænserne, og jeg ser for mit indre blik en stang oprørske teenagere tilbage i 90’erne, mens han leende indrømmer, han altid har haft svært ved at tale om black metal-scenen, ”fordi han ikke har den fjerneste idé om, hvad det efterhånden betyder”. Naturligvis spørger jeg lidt ind til hans egen rolle i alt det her, og endnu en gang undslipper der ham et grin, mens han forsikrer mig om, han skam ”er vældig godt tilpas” i sit eget studie, hvor han gør, hvad der passer ham. Atter antager hans norskprægede accent en blød undertone, da vi graver lidt i det større billede af Ihsahn vs. Vegard.

Jeg vælger selv mine samarbejdspartnere; jeg har været i Emperor, jeg er syv albums inde i en solokarriere, og folk er stadig ikke trætte af mig! Jeg laver, hvad jeg elsker, og samtidig har jeg tid til at passe mit liv ved siden af. Mine børn, mine hunde. Jeg er et meget privat menneske. Indimellem kan jeg gå ud og optræde med mit soloprojekt med nogle fantastiske musikere, jeg kan optræde med mine gamle venner i Emperor og spille shows, jeg virkelig…” Stemmen dør hen, og jeg kan fornemme, han svæver gennem nostalgiens mange lag. ”Hvis nogen havde fortalt mig, da jeg var ti år, at der ville blive bygget guitarer specifikt til mig…”  Jeg får drejet hans opmærksomhed hen mod hans specialbyggede instrumenter, og hele vejen igennem hans begejstrede fortælling om komposit kontra naturlig bemærker jeg, at den professionelle nostalgi er ikkeeksisterende, en teori der bliver understøttet af hans tilgang til black metallen.

 

Du har mere eller mindre frit valg på alle hylder, når det kommer til valg af samarbejdspartnere. Men hvem vil du allerhelst arbejde sammen med?

Det er svært at svare på. Jeg har gang i flere ting lige nu. Jeg er ved at producere et album for en anden, men Rob Halford har givet udtryk for, han gerne vil lave et black metal-album. Han og jeg diskuterede det allerede i starten af 00’erne, men så vendte han tilbage til Judas Priest”.

Han nævner skødesløst Nergal fra Behemoth i samme sætning, og jeg kan kun give ham alverdens ret i, hvor fantastisk det kunne blive. Pludselig bliver han alvorlig igen og fastslår, at det er noget, der skal gøres med omtanke. Hans professionelle facade krakelerer et sekund, og beundringen i hans stemme er ikke til at overhøre, når talen falder på Rob Halford. Han kalder Rob for en ”gentleman”, og han understreger, han ikke kan se bort fra det faktum, at Rob er ”The God of Metal”. Ligeledes står det mig klart, at Nergal også nyder Ihsahns respekt.

Han er en af dem fra scenen, som, synes jeg, har en positiv indflydelse. Han har integritet og gemmer sig ikke bag en maske. Jeg tager ham lige seriøst, når han står på scenen med Behemoth og make-up på, som jeg gør, når han fjoller rundt på Instagram. Der er ingen slinger i valsen med ham. Og det er fremtiden for black metal. Mennesker, der tager deres individualitet og deres liv alvorligt, og det er i højeste grad, hvad black metal handler om”.

 

Er der nogen genrer, du endnu ikke har udforsket, du kunne tænke dig at fordybe dig i i fremtiden?

Han ler, og med en typisk for skandinaver underspillet humor betror han mig, at der er ”rigtig, rigtig, rigtig mange”, men at hans evner er ”begrænsede, og jeg i virkeligheden bare stjæler lidt her og der og så tilføjer det til min forvrængede guitar og mit skrigeri”.

 

Går du Ulver i bedene en dag og tager springet ud i det elektroniske?

Han hakker lidt i det, før han endelig beslutter sig for et stålsat ”det tror jeg ikke”. Han udpeger, hvad der for ham er den helt store forskel mellem de to retninger.

Jeg tror, det har noget at gøre med den slags vokal, jeg benytter mig af. Sammen med mit guitarspil er det en del af, hvem jeg er, så det vil også være en del af min musik. Jeg elsker at udforske, men jeg har aldrig nogen intentioner om at lyde som nogen andre. Jeg vil bare gerne forsøge at lyde som mig på forskellige måder”.

Han forekommer mig afklaret omkring sit valg, men fortæller lidt om de mange andre projekter, han har en finger med i spillet i, musik der ikke nødvendigvis inkorporerer hverken vokaler eller guitarer. ”På en mindre skala kunne det være interessant at gå videre med de andre sager, men jeg kan ikke se mig selv lave om på alt og lave et elektronisk projekt”.

 

Hvorfor har du ikke været i Danmark siden aldrig?

Det her spørgsmål har jeg ventet længe på at få svar på, min research har bekræftet manglen på besøg. Han retter en anklagende pegefinger i retning af sin booker og lader mig så forstå i halvt skjulte vendinger, at det bliver der nok lavet om på snart. Han kæmper for ikke at hverken afsløre eller love for meget, men kan alligevel fortælle, at der planlægges ”en mindre europæisk turné i forbindelse med den seneste udgivelse. Intet er hugget i sten, det er kompliceret, men jeg håber”. Han udtrykker beklagelse over, han ikke har spillet ret meget på disse breddegrader og sætter i en kluklatter, når han informerer mig om, at han, til sammenligning, har været i Japan fem gange.

Og lige med ét er tiden gået. For længst. Jeg takker ham for hans tid og beder ham gøre mig en sidste tjeneste: sige et par ord til de danske fans. Venlig som han er, makker han ret, og jeg skulle hilse mange gange og sige tak for støtten, og at han håber, I kommer og ser ham spille…

 

 

Ihsahn recently dropped his seventh solo album. We sat down for a pleasant conversation about working around self-imposed limitations, not caring about the expectations of others, and of course, what lies behind the claustrophobic sound that is Ámr.

Despite the different styles of expression there are some similarities between Arktis and Ámr, but Ámr seems to me like a darker and more emotional version of your previous album. How did you manage to build further on your sound, without repeating yourself?

He chuckles to himself and tells me of the constant challenge to skip, “muscle memory”, and finding situations and inspirations that keeps him, “enthusiastic and excited about the process”. He pauses for a brief moment before telling me the similarities between Arktis and Ámr are, in his opinion, “mostly because of the focus on song structure.

The one prior to them, Das Seelenbrechen, includes more free-form and improvised techniques and, as a contrast, I did Arktis with the challenge in mind to see if I could write an album which is basically within a pop/rock formula.”

Most of the music he listened to growing up falls within that category and in the true spirit of a Norwegian black metal artist, he isn’t afraid to talk about his work.

Everybody kind of has the intuition or blueprint of what that is - you know that typical pop/rock structure. It’s very challenging to fill those 3½ to 5 minutes with something interesting that still fits within the formula. And, of course, it deviates at times. I think in that respect, the albums are kind of similar. For me, what has changed is really just the scenes I create before I actually start writing any music."

Regarding the comparison with Arktis, he speaks enthusiastically about the major difference between the previous and newest release and mentions the artwork on both albums as preludes to the actual content. In his mind’s eye, the landscape cover art for Arktis together with the metaphors of the lyrics and some of the sounds, suggests the opposite scenario of Ámr.

For me it’s all kind of happening inside. I wrote up in a sketch that the album happens inside this dark room, so I guess the album art also suggests it happens indoors. It’s also the reason for having a main focus on analogue synthesizer for the arrangements, of course on top of the guitars, because it creates a more intimate and claustrophobic sound.”

 

Your approach to the synthetic aspect on this album. Is that an homage to the times the keyboard was a crucial part of black metal or did you intend it to be a modern electronic interpretation?

I would say both.”

This question sparks what turns out to be the first of many trips down memory lane. He states that movie soundtracks are the reason he loves, “mock-up orchestral sounds” in his music. As we all know, horror movie soundtracks are still very much orchestral, and he namedrops the Halloween movies, John Carpenter and the until now unknown to me, Tangerine Dream, then goes on to describe how he fell in love with,

Music that was all half-out of tune old synthesizers that created this eerie and intimate atmosphere. Strings and horns all create big music, but in the top end in a way. With synthesizers, especially when you use analog synthesizers for bass, it becomes big, but in the low end.” 

He stops himself from, in his own words, tooling off into a walk-through of the history of synthesizers”, with a laugh and draws the conclusion that the old kind of analog synth sounds that he remembers from the past is a huge part of it, but with a modern production. This is where the interview took a bit of a turn. To hear one of the most innovative musicians on this side of metal tell me how he was inspired by modern hip-hop and R ‘n’ B, was surprising, despite it not being all news to me. He speaks with enthusiasm about the power and density of the sub-octave bass, the role played by the fabled 808 and closes the chapter with his trademark combination of passion and humility with a comment on how he, “wanted to see if I could implement that, with my expression of course.

 

There’s a lot of jarring turns and edges spread across the album, creating an opposition to the often soft musical arrangements. What effect do you hope it will have on the listener’s experience of the album as a whole?

He exhales sharply and describes how he hopes,

The juxtaposition of things widens the impact of the album. The frameworks I create would have a scene or a common ground that I can measure all the new ideas, melodies or riffs against and I can kind of hold those ideas up to, you know, the overall goal and see if it fits.“

He hesitates for a moment, choosing his words carefully, before explaining how he expands his sound from album to album.

"I think by having this framework I’m creating a stretch further within the same album, without kind of falling out of the atmosphere, but rather expanding on it and I guess it’s a preference - I like varied music. You need something quiet you know, in between, to have an impact on the loudness. It’s as simple as that.”

He points out how it’s an element some people forget, when making or listening to this type of music. ”The nature of extreme metal is that everything is up to 11, from start to finish.” He laments the subsequent lack of variety and explains how it is necessary to have lows and quiet moments because the peaks are all-important.  With a faint chuckle that sounds almost apologetic, he tells me how he’s noticed that when he plays some of his, “more mellow and quiet things, it’s gone down pretty well, even on extreme metal festivals or what have you… having some kind of quiet before it hits again gives that variety. It’s hard to explain why, sometimes I just do.

 

Can you point to one thing that you would say is the common denominator that connects all your previous solo albums with the newest one or are they all headed in their own direction?

He takes a deep breath as if he has an answer ready but instead lets out a heavy, almost resigned sigh. He makes a few false starts before finally getting the needle in the groove with a conclusive,

They all connect very naturally together!

He tells me how even when he did The Adversary, he knew he would make it into a trilogy, long before he wanted to do any live shows.

Rather than just continuing where I left off with Emperor, I wanted to start over and create a musical platform of my own.”

He then proceeds to describe each album to me and beginning with the return to his heavy metal roots, and how he essentially started from scratch. The second one cultivated his expression and it didn’t take him more than until the third album to find his platform.

It was far more experimental, you know, with extra guitars, saxophone and more conceptual in the atmosphere I think and I felt very much at home with what I ended up hearing.”

He talks about the fourth and how he needed a natural deviation from what he had been doing so far and how it was vital to, “reset the parameters and not become too comfortable.” Das Seelenbrechen is a very experimental album with a lot of, “free form stuff”, which he states was a truly improvisational thesis, something he found both liberating and scary at the same time.

As a response to that I did Arktis, which was very firm and melodic and recognizable. I guess as an answer to Arktis that was very almost organic in a way I think and for me it’s a very positively laden record.

He falters a bit, trying to find the words to describe how he tried to span the gap between, 

an arctic, wide-open landscape to an inside and dark scene. I peeled away a lot of the more high-end arrangements and focused on a darker, electronic sub-driven atmosphere. It’s kind of just a natural progression, but also sometimes an answer to the previous record.” 
 

What's the most rewarding part of the process for you, when it comes to constructing music?

This time there is no hesitation, no stopping to think. He lets out a hearty laugh and tells me,

It’s those few seconds where the speakers play back something I made, and I have no idea how it got there, but I’m going to take credit for it.”
 

Do you think your background as a member of one of the most influential bands in this genre gives you more freedom to experiment with the format, as opposed to not having that sort of seniority?

I think that gave me a lot of experience and I came into the more serious way of thinking about music very early on…

His voice takes on a dreamy edge as he looks back on a lifetime of music. He relays how he’s been musically inclined since the age of six,

… but it didn’t really take up much focus until I got my first electric guitar when I was 10 or 11. I immediately started playing in bands and I think by 12 I had my first four-track recorded.

I nod in silent sympathy with the teenaged Vegard, who by the tender age of 13 started playing in a band with not only Samoth, but also older boys of the ripe age of 16.

To me they were grown-ups that had recorded a professional demo in a studio, so by joining these older guys I didn’t get away with anything. I really had to be up to the part, to stay in the band. I guess I was lucky at that age to find someone who was far more experienced than me, so I had to give all I got and get into the mindset.”

He kept that particular mindset through his other bands up to, and including, Emperor and he concludes how his hard work from the beginning, made him into such a versatile musician.

I think my background started with keyboard, then piano, then guitar. Somehow, I ended up singing and it became my responsibility at a very young age, to take care of the arrangements and eventually all the lyrics. Eventually I built a studio of my own, over the years”.

He drifts off and I ask him if it helped to infuse him with a musical discipline. He responds with an enthusiastic,

Yeah, yeah! And of course, we signed to Candlelight Records when I was 16, so I never really had a proper job. Everyone else works at... you know, the gas station at that age but I never did anything like that. I’ve been able to put all my working hours into music, which is of course, a privilege.”

Did fans of Emperor welcome your solo project or did your fan base change all together?

This question cements my suspicion that every Norwegian is secretly an impressionist because his answer includes a spot-on parody on those who claim to be experts on what black metal is or isn’t.

Both yes and no. Both. Some fans would go, “Oooh, this is not Emperor. This is not black metal!” They said that about the last Emperor album too. That I did on my own, so, you know, to each his own. Some prefer the first or the second and kind of wanted it to be like that. Some prefer AC/DC, some prefer Radiohead. Some like change, some don’t.”

Regarding his background in Emperor he tells me they never tried to fit in, quite the opposite.

There was no scene, so we never intended anything to be successful or hit a certain market. It became more a consequence of us being so narrow-minded. Probably that’s the only way we ended up having a career in the first place. Because we didn’t try to make it in any established scene. We just did something that eventually became something exotic in its own right and carved out a place of its own.”

The conversation returns to present day and he ponders for a moment the fact that apart from A-ha, there’s not really that many Norwegian musicians out there with an international career.

"So having that mindset and a bit of luck, it became a thing of its own. I like to kind of stick to that privilege and that method to whatever I do and not to be disrespectful of the people who actually follow my music and buy my albums. If they didn’t do that, I wouldn’t be talking to you about my seventh album obviously, I’m very grateful for that.”

He takes a small break as if to gather his thoughts and ventures a guess as to why people are drawn to his music; he believes it’s because they want something that’s “real and honest”, he believes they seek music that doesn’t just smooth itself into their ears.

They want something that is uncompromising and kind of very…. made in an egocentric way.

With a loud laugh devoid of false humility and self-deprivation he concludes: “At least that’s what I tell myself, so I feel good about doing my own thing regardless.”

 

Black metal comes in many forms. Can you share with us your view on the dos and don’ts that helped shape the genre the last 25 years?

 “I’ve often said, “Being black metal is a state of mind.” To me black metal is not blast beats and synthesized guitars and screaming. It’s whatever conjures up that abstract feeling inside. Diamanda Galas can be as black metal and conjure up those feelings just as much as the old Bathory.”

Suddenly serious, he lets me know in so many words he is well aware of the fact some people might not see his current outlet as black metal. But to him, it is.

 “I don’t care what people call it, but that feeling inside, the source from where I create everything, is very much the same as when I first started out. And every new song and every new album is another attempt to reach or get closer to that abstract goal, or maybe, reflect those core instincts in different ways.”

Looking back on his previous albums, he finds a lot of recurring themes and states of mind.

“It’s what I do. It’s an uncompromising searching, longing in music. That’s what black metal is to me.”

Speaking both of and on behalf of the black metal scene, he feels that the many subgenres can result in a form of commercialization which will lead to a “fashion police to tell you the dos and don’ts.” He puts his verbal foot down and states he thinks,

The whole point in the philosophy is absolutely having NO dos and don’ts. I thought the point was carved out of the, “do what thou will, it is the whole of the law”, you know, and to put it like this - who would want a black metal album where the people making it, were dictating it by what the audience was expecting?

He muses over what kind of black metal attitude would go into that and lets out another hearty laugh at the thought of the huge paradox of the words “oh it’s not black metal anymore!” His voice takes on a sharp edge, as he states,

If you did whatever the fuck you wanted, it’s true. If you don’t like it, it’s up to you. I get this a lot as well, ‘Oh how come you’re doing all this experimental music now’

He underlines his point by bringing Ulver into the equation,

He was black metal and now he’s doing electronic music, but to me it’s almost strange, that not more artists from that original Norwegian scene does that.

He is fascinated by how not more of those guys do more experimental music,

We were or are in that scene. We were teenagers pushing the envelope of what you can do musically, to a rather extreme point. And I think it’s very sad if you stop that process at age 17.”

With so many artists from back then still active, he finds it strange that very few of them stayed in that mindset of,     

developing and searching for the edges of what they could do musically. I would have expected more people doing more experimental music from that scene and what eventually came out of it.

Black metal is almost trendy in Denmark these days. But do you think the attention from the mainstream waters drown the concept or will black metal finally get the recognition it deserves?

"I think this age waters it out. It’s kind of high time we get something new and extreme. The Sex Pistols were extremely shocking in the 1970s but not as much in the 1980s. In the beginning of the 1990s Norwegian black metal was an extreme and shocking thing.”

He searches for the words to describe what shocking is today and points the finger in the general direction of mainstream entertainment. Watching Netflix, his children are already exposed to more sex and violence than he was at that age and commercials like the ones we have today he tells me with a chuckle would have been X-rated when he was young,

 ”The envelope of what people are accustomed to is pushed these days, so this music has already kind of lost some of the edge. For shock value now, it should be something new.”

We touch upon the subject of whether extreme metal has become politically correct and Ihsahn has no doubt in his mind that yes, it has,

In a kind of un-charming way. I’m not talking about all of them. But on social media, everyone is becoming too personal and it loses some of the craziness and the magic. Everyone was so absorbed by the music. They were crazy. And now you don’t really get to that level of crazy anymore.”

 

What do you think the future looks like for black metal?

Apparently, this is not an easy question to answer because the silence is deafening. But you can’t not have an opinion on the music you helped forward and the answer is right in front of us.

I think black metal as a genre is more like a relic. Like something people have a nostalgic relationship with.”

He pauses again, and I almost feel sorry for him, sitting there in his turtleneck, trying to predict a future he himself is shaping. With a tone of finality, he states his hopes of, “someone younger getting into it”, something he hopes will push the edges a bit further and I recall the image of a handful of teenagers pushing said edges back in the 90s, as he tells me with a laugh he, “always found it very hard to talk about the black metal scene because I hardly know what that is anymore.” Of course, I must enquire about his own role in all of this and he promptly responds with a chuckle and how he’s, “very comfortable”, in his studio, doing his own thing. Once again, his smooth Norwegian accent-tinted voice takes on a soft edge, when we dig into the bigger picture of Ihsahn vs. Vegard.

Getting to choose the people I work with and after getting to do Emperor, I am now seven albums into my solo career and still people are not sick of it! I get to do what I love and at the same time maintain my life. My children, my dogs. I’m a very private person. And occasionally I can go out and play my solo stuff with some fantastic musicians and I can go out with my old friends with Emperor and play shows I really…”, his voice falters a bit and for a moment I can feel him drifting through the layers of nostalgia. “If someone told me when I was ten years old, people will build you custom guitars…”, I divert his attention to his custom-made instrument and through his enthusiastic recount of composite materials vs. natural, I suspect that professional nostalgia is not for him – a fact that is further backed up by his approach to black metal.

 

You can more or less choose freely when it comes to potential collaborations, but with whom would you most want to work with? 

It’s hard to say. I have some projects I’ve got going on. I’m producing an album on the side, but Rob Halford has been mentioning he wants to do a black metal album. Me and him discussed this in the early 2000s but then he rejoined Judas Priest.”

He casually mentions Nergal from Behemoth in the same sentence and the thought of a collaboration between those three throws me off track and I agree with his sentiment of how amazing it would be.  Suddenly serious, he states it’s something that has to be done properly. He lets the professional façade slip for a second and the awe is clear in his voice, when the talk falls on Halford, to whom he refea gentleman”.

But you can’t get past the fact he’s the god of metal. Nergal as well is someone I deeply admire. He is one of those from the black metal scene who, I think, has a positive influence.” It becomes clear that Nergal is held in high regards with my interviewee.

He has integrity and doesn’t hide behind a mask. He embodies his philosophy. I take him equally serious on stage with Behemoth in make-up, as when he’s making jokes and laughing his ass off on Instagram because there are no games with him. And that’s what I think is the future of black metal. People who take their individuality and their own life seriously and that, very much, is what black metal is all about.”

 

Are there any genres you haven’t explored yet, you want to look into in the future?

He laughs and with a typical-for-Scandinavians understated response tells me,

Oooh, many many many! But uhm... my skills are very limited in that regard, so I just pick bits and pieces and add them to my distorted guitar and screaming”.

Are you gonna pull an Ulver on us one day, and go 100% electronic?

He hums and haws a bit, before finally deciding on an, “I don’t think so.” He points out what to him, is the major difference between those two directions,

I think it’s the type of vocals I do, and my guitar playing is second nature to me. In some way I think that will always be a part of my music. I like to explore, but I never have an intention of sounding like someone else. I just want to try and sound like me in different ways.”

He seems very clear on the subject but tells me a bit about some of the other projects he’s been involved in - music that doesn’t employ either vocals or guitars. “For some smaller format it would be interesting to try out the other stuff, but I can’t really see myself changing entirely and doing an electronic project.

Why haven’t you been in Denmark in… ever?

This has been on my mind quite a lot and my research has confirmed the fact that Ihsahn has never played in our tiny kingdom. He points an accusing finger towards his booking agent and then lets me know in convoluted terms, that maybe that’s going to change. Trying very hard not to either reveal or promise too much is of the essence but he tells me,

We’re planning a shorter European tour for this album. Nothing is set in stone as of yet, it’s complicated… but I do hope.

He laments the fact that he hasn’t played that many shows on this latitude, especially when he, laughing as he recounts the past, has been five times to Japan.

And suddenly, we’re out of time. I thank him for his time and ask him to do me one last favour: A few words to his Danish fans. Ever agreeable he thanks you all for your support and wants you to know he hopes he gets to play here soon. “…this fall, I hope it’s gonna happen.”